Jeremy C

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Posts by Jeremy C

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  23

  BURNING AT THE STAKE SOON TO RETURN.

  by hamsterbait in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i dont just mean in the islamic world but in the world of ex jwd.. i am so thankful that at the time i was seeking help and new ideas this board did not ritually hang draw and quarter those who wanted to hang on to thier witness views (even thought they were already swimming alone in a pacific ocean with no boat in sight).

  we need to be kind to those we disagree with, not make them feel like satan.. why complain about shunning when we treat those who disagree with our views just as badly.. reniaa is now going back to the cult because there were too many judgmental posts - some of which i found very offensive because they disrespected her as a person.. all of us matter.

  so many come here hoping for support.

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  Jeremy C

  Reniaa is now going back to the cult because there were too many judgmental posts - some of which I found very offensive because they disrespected her as a person.

  Is this true? She is going to pursue getting reinstated?

  How we deal with Watchtower apologists is a tricky balancing act. When a Watchtower apologist makes inaccurate claims, attempts to throw around Watchtower slogans and one-liners, and ridecules other Christian denominations; I have no problem taking them to task. I have seen some Watchtower posters on here in the past who were just asking for their heads to be handed to them.

  But there have been others who did not warrant that kind of treatment. I remember briefly interacting with an active elder on here one time. His only point of contention was the blood policies. He got chased off the forum by a couple of nasty posters which was a real shame.

  Often, behavior on ex-JW forums only solidifies the claims made by the Watchtower that "apostates" are hateful, and filled with spite toward "Jehovah's people". One visit on this forum has actually proven to a few JWs that "mother organization" was right about us.

  I don't know about reniaa. I really didn't engage with her and didn't know much about her. But I do know that some on this forum claimed that reniaa had engaged in some unacceptable behavior toward them on other forums.

  I will say this though. If anyone who has thoroughly investigated Watchtower doctrines would actually go back to the Watchtower fantasy world because of some mean posters; they obviously lack true rationality and intellectual honesty.
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  18

  English C.O. Visit last talk on Sunday - Highlights

  by BonaFide in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  so i went to the english meeting last sunday, friends who don't know what i know wanted me to go with them.. the circuit oversser is brother rucker.

  he started off by saying, "now why do you think that jehovah chose you to be in his organization?

  what makes you special?

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  Jeremy C

  The Watchtower world view is like a slot machine in a casino. It captivates little old ladies who cling to the idea that the "big payoff" is in the next token. It is hard to walk away from something after one has already given so much to it. What if the big "payoff" happens soon after you get up and walk away?

  Many Jehovah's Witnesses stay because they need Armageddon to come. So many of them have given up college, forgone building a retirement account, and have taken a pass on pursuing work that involves their natural talents and passions. "We can do all of that in the new system", they tell themselves.

  Just like the old lady who can't pull herself up from the stool of the slot machine, many Jehovah's Witnesses just cannot give up on a concept in which they have invested so much. Many of them could not handle it psychologically.
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  25

  The internet will be there down fall.

  by is there help out there in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the first think normal thinking people do when they knock on there door and hand out there garbage is to google jw.

  they then find out what a bunch of sick people they are.

  years ago when there was no internet they got sucked into believe if they joined they will live in paradise forever.

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  Jeremy C

  Never before in history has anyone been able to download and print the kind of information that had been locked behind closed doors. For example: the websites that provide access to confidential materials such as the Elder's book, branch manuals, damning legal documents (Barb Anderson's CD), and letters to bodies of elders. There are many curious active JWs who want to see the Elder's book and branch manuals for example.

  Prior to the internet, hardly anyone had heard of Ray Franz. The internet has made Ray Franz a household name among ex-JWs. His books have exploded in popularity with the proliferation of ex-JW websites and discussion forums.

  The Watchtower organization has thrived on it's perceived aura of spiritual loftiness and nebulous Divine power because of how much goes on behind closed doors among the "elite" John Class. With the free flow of information, this mysterious Divine loftiness disappears; and what is left in it's place is a group of delusional old men and a team of lawyers running a printing corporation.

  Now that we can learn the truth about the "Truth", we see that there is no Jehovah guiding a modern day body of prophets. There is merely a group of offices in Brooklyn and Patterson filled with petty, petulant, and grandiose Adventist impersonators. Jehovah is merely a shadow puppet projected onto the minds of millions of people by a bunch of delusional old windbags.
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  18

  Feeling Guilty for "Bad" Thoughts

  by snowbird in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i remember a circuit assembly where two young ladies who had recently graduated from hs were interviewed.. they went on and on about how they didn't participate in certain aspects of the graduation traditions because they'd done research and found some to originate with paganism.. they claimed that even marching into the auditorium and doing a sharp turn arose from some occultic practice.

  i sat there and thought, "i'll bet those school officials were glad to see the last of you two heifers!

  i was immediately smitten with guilt that i could think such a thing.. now, i laugh and shake my head at the idiocy of it all.. sylvia.

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  Jeremy C

  This may be the biggest obstacle that prevents the average JW from addressing their congnitive dissonance. Witnesses are systematically indoctrinated to believe that any unflattering observations they may have about the organization, it's doctrines, or policies originate from a "fault-finding" attitude.

  They are indoctrinated to believe that the "seeds of doubt", the "fault-finding attitude", and the "independent spirit" are in a sense, viruses that have been unleashed into the "system's air" by Satan. If one catches these traits developing within themselves, they believe that they must eradicate this "virus" by diving deeper into Watchtower publications and praying for their "bad thoughts" to cease.

  Many JWs must also take extra measures to suppress their dissonance with coping mechanisms such as alcohol, over-eating, anti-depressants, and watching a lot of television. Anything to make the thougts go away.

  You will find that this kind of overt manipulation used by the Watchtower is also used by toxic parents who repeatedly induce guilt in their children to control them. Children of toxic parents are conditioned to ignore their own deepest needs and desires, and are taught that their own feelings don't matter. They are taught to give their power away.

  This systematic process of guilt-inducement by the Watchtower is incredibly toxic and stunts people's intellectual and emotional growth. I have often argued that the Watchtower organization is one of the most toxic parents of them all.

  "Don't question the mother organization, just do as she says." - Watchtower chapter 1, verse 1
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  19

  When they say its run by imperfect men

  by purplesofa in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i have a jw friend that i ran into about a month ago from my kh.

  he is not going to the meetings.

  i get to talk to him occasionally.

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  Jeremy C

  It is very important to remember that the Watchtower organization does not strictly follow the Bible; but merely it's interpretation of the Bible. The first century Jewish leaders repeatedly congratulated themselves on the fact that they strictly followed the "law". They pointed to their elaborate Talmud with it's codes and rules as outward proof. Yet, they clearly missed the forrest for the trees.

  The Watchtower does the same thing today with it's labrynthine rules, policies, and procedures which place the organization in a co-Mediatorship with Jesus. For all intents and purposes, the Governing Body has become a de facto Priesthood. All of this seems impressive to the average JW, but this modern arrangement clearly reverts back to the Old Covenant which has been done away with.

  An entire book could also be written about the Watchtower's very unique and immaginative interpretations of Daniel and Revelation; and how these interpretations play into their claim of being selected by Christ to be a channel of communication to mankind.

  The next time a JW talks about the proud and haughty first century religious leaders, tell them that maybe they were just imperfect men who were strictly adhering to God's word. Tell them that those who felt burdened by the religious leaders were probably just displaying an "independent spirit" and a "fault-finding attitude". Sit back and enjoy their facial contortions as well as the rhetorical tap-dance they perform.
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  13

  This is important (Quoting Betsy and Jeremy C.)

  by Hiddenwindow in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the society insists in its cultish talk.

  given the secretive nature of the governing body's delibarations, we do not know what they are preparing for.

  both besy and jeremy c. made excellent contributions to a recent thread, and i want to follow up.

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  Jeremy C

  I just happened to spot this thread tonight. I suppose that I should clarify my post within the context of the original thread. In no way was I suggesting that the Watchtower organization would commit acts on the same level as Jonestown. But, I do believe that a time will soon come when the Governing Body will make some kind of irrational decisions that will bring enormous attention to the organization. Instead of decisions causing physical harm to members, I had more in mind organizational decisions that would bring about enormous embarrassement and humiliation to the rank and file.

  What might such decisions be? Who really knows what the Governing Body is thinking. But remember, we are talking about men who believe that they are a modern day body of Apostles who are the sole channel of Divine communiation to mankind. They are men who believe that God and Jesus will dictate "new scrolls" to them - scrolls that shall outline a new global theocracy. These are men who believe that people like C.T. Russell, Judge Rutherford, and Nathan Knorr are helping to guide them from heaven. These are men who have stated in no uncertain terms that they will give future orders to the rank and file which require no rational explanations. Blind faith will be the order of the day. We can only immagine what these deluded old windbags might pull out of their rectal cavaties under the banner of "new light".

  It is true that they have printed statements similar to the above mentioned many times over the years, but this is a time quite different from the previous decades. The unprecedented amount of information on the internet with an increasing number of faders is adding to the Governing Body's paranoia about apostacy. Something obviously needs to be done; and soon. This perceived increase in the "opposition from Satan" is evidence to them that the end is ever closer at hand.

  Take all of this into consideration while adding a large scale event into the mix; such as another 9/11, and I could forsee the Governing Body issuing a proclomation for JWs not to do any traveling; not to make any large purchases, to take their children out of school, or a whole host of other knee-jerk reactions. Without pointing to any chronology, they could also inadvertantly unleash another 1975 fiasco by establishing a specified time frame for Armageddon. When cult leaderships feel increasingly under seige, they take very drastic and irrational measures.

  We need to remember something very important. JWs have been indoctrinated to believe that a time will come (near the end of this system) where scriptural precedent will not have to be adhered to as "new instructions" eminate from the organization. Since they are "new instructions"; the average JW would not expect such "instruction" to have a scriptural precedent. They believe that Jehovah is transmitting new information to the Governing Body "as the day draws close". The scary part of that is . . . . . so does the Governing Body. So, I wonder what might the deluded subconscious minds of the GB tell them that Jehovah is speaking to them.

  I do not see liberalization or attempts to become more mainstream coming down the pike. Cults do not go mainstream. Also, Jehovah has never been a very moderate, mainsteam kind of Deity. He is first and foremost a fist-pounding theocrat. And so are the crackpots who channel him.
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  27

  How far away from their original beliefs are JW's?

  by besty in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i was struck by a quote in a very recent watchtower claiming that wts publications are now part of the bible.

  quite a bold statement.. how about these two quotes beside each other:.

  we would not refuse to treat one as a brother because he did not believe the society is the lord's channel.

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  Jeremy C

  *** w07 12/15 pp. 19-20 pars. 15-16 “Stand Firm and See the Salvation of Jehovah” ***
  
  “‘This is the way. Walk in it, you people,’ in case you people should go to the right or in case you should go to the left.” (Isaiah 30:21) As we get nearer to the outbreak of the great tribulation, we may well receive some detailed instructions. Our safe journey through those troublesome days will depend on our keeping in step with other loyal servants of Jehovah.

  I commented on this trend in another thread. Witnesses are being systamatically indoctrinated to believe that "instructions" (commands) will come down the pike for which there is no Scriptural precendent or basis. They are also being indoctrinated to believe that their safety will hinge on their unquestioning compliance with such "instructions", even if they do not understand them. Just think about the implications of this.

  When an organization reaches this point, the centralized leadership can institute any kind of draconian policies without any Scriptural reason for doing so. What will the deluded subconscious minds of these leaders tell them to do? And how far will the majority of the members go in their misguided allegiance to this kind of system? It makes you think. Yet, this is where the Watchtower organization is headed.

  When we look at history, we see that when an organization reaches this tipping point; it's gets very interesting; perhaps a bit frightening. This is the point at which all cultic groups have made their biggest blunders, and where their members have suffered the worst consequences.
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  27

  How far away from their original beliefs are JW's?

  by besty in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i was struck by a quote in a very recent watchtower claiming that wts publications are now part of the bible.

  quite a bold statement.. how about these two quotes beside each other:.

  we would not refuse to treat one as a brother because he did not believe the society is the lord's channel.

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  Jeremy C

  This stance of theirs is quite amusing when considering the fact that they have long deonounced the Roman Catholic Church for doing the very same thing. Church creed has been arrived at by the voting of a College of Cardinals - a tool used by Satan the Devil; according to the Watchtower.

  Yet, the "truth" that Jehovah's Witnesses speak of is a massive collection of doctrinal revisions over a period of a century that have been arrived at by a small number of men in Brooklyn voting on them as well. Sometimes, much of this "truth" was the immaginative creations of one man; Fred Franz.

  So therefore, how can they give uninspired publications the same level of importance as the inspired Scriptures? And how can they denounce the Catholic Church for having an established consensus of doctrines voted on by a centralized governing council?

  I have said many times that the Watchtower organization is a re-creation of first century Judaism. And, the Governing Body is a sort of a reincarnated Pharisee class. Their Talmud and organizational rulings take precedence over what they claim to be the inspired word, as well as basic common sense.
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  42

  They "Keep Following the Lamb" - February Study Article (Praise for the GB)

  by Ultimate Reality in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  the article is not yet in print, however on jw.org you will find the audio recording for the february 15, 2009 study edition.. this article sums up some of the talks given over the past year or so.

  it makes clear that we should trust the faithful and discreet slave because jehovah and jesus trust the "slave".

  the slave has been faithfully providing spiritual food for 130 years.

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  Jeremy C

  Everything hangs on that date. Even if you can make the leap of logic on stringing together scriptures to say that the Gentile Times are 2520 years, if 607 is wrong then there is no 1914 and no 1918/19. If those dates fall, then that means they were not appointed by Christ and THEY HAVE NO AUTHORITY.

  Which I believe is a major reason why all of the older publications by C.T. Russell and J.F. Rutherford were purged from Kingdom Hall libraries long ago.

  It's very fascinating that the Watchtower leadership has presented the published teachings of this era as having enormous prophetic and earth shattering significance. Yet, almost every Witness who seriously investigates these publications from the pre-1919 era does not stay in the organization.

  The very organizational concept rests upon a wobbly foundation - the 1919 appointment to the office of Faithful Slave by Christ Jesus. The Watchtower organization is like a Jenga tower. Remove illusion of Divine appointment, and there is no Slave Class with it's Governing Body. There is no legitamacy to the organizational concept, and therefore no legitamacy to the theocracy that they weild over millions of people.

  This is a major reason why the publications are being dumbed-down while simultaneously becoming more authoritarian.
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  16

  1914 is on my WTCD 6398 times...but do they still use it now?

  by oompa in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i rarely reat the mags anymore, and do not know how to get this cd to search only current wt's.....is that even possible?

  i also have only been to one meeting in two years, and i did not hear it then either....is it used in talks anymore?......this date will go the same way of all their other dates.....in the trash.........oompa

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  Jeremy C

  there are still references to 1914 but I do detect that the 1914 message is rapidly losing the credibility it once had.

  The Society has seemed to back away from their assertions regarding earthquakes since 1914. I suspect that some in the organization began to express reservations about the Society's claims regarding earthquake intensity and frequency since 1914. Historical data has shown that the Watchtower's arguments were based more on wishful thinking than fact.

  The pestilence issue is also a bit hazy. Medical technology (especially the development of antibiotics) has wiped out many of the common diseases and infections that routinely killed millions. Life spans are now increasing in industrialized lands. I had noticed while I was still in that the Watchtower was beginning to point to heart disease and cancer as pestilence. This seemed to me like they were reaching a bit.

  Famines were much worse prior to 1914 than they are now. There has been no evidence that food shortages have increased in severity and frequency after 1914. Quite to the contrary.

  As we have seen, world conditions have not gotten progressively worse since 1914; but have gone through cycles. Anyone who seriously studies world history with all of it's atrocities, plagues, famines, and human harships begins to find the Watchtower's arguments to be shaky.

  But, I suppose the Watchtower will find some way to get more mileage out of 1914. They can always point out that Noah had 120 years warning before the flood. There will no doubt be those dyed in the wool Watchtower Witnesses who are eager to swallow such an explanation.